EVE Search - New drones, modules and what not

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 42 post(s)
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.01 09:08:00 - [1] Well this devblog was a bomb. I do not like these changes, and these are my reasons. 1. I've trained my Drone skills alot, and also alot of those skills that support drone operation. I am comfortable that my time has not been wasted, since I feel a little special hanging out my 15 drones. After the change, I'm as ordinary as any, fly 5 drones, wehee. 2. As race/story perspective, Gallante is the "Drone Race". After the change, you can forget it. 3. Versality of using drones is best part. I can load up the ship with drones, and do several different things while out from station. If I notice that I got some left over cargo space, I just pop to roid field and fill it up before docking. After this change, my spare/different drone capacity is reduced. 4. Enemy (NPC) distraction was fun part, why make all the enemies argo your self when you can send 1 drone to harash each one? After the chance, a harashment means that you lose 1/5 of your drones per each enemy. The result is, that if these changes come to be, my fun for flying Vexor/Domi/Ishtar is reduced, propably to a point where I no longer want to fly them. Their specialty (atleast to me) is gone, I might aswel revert to using Deimos. Well anyway, was fun to fly those, but things change. Maybe you guys at CCP invent some new unique, "feel a different" ship some day to replace the loss. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.01 09:08:00 - [2] Well this devblog was a bomb. I do not like these changes, and these are my reasons. 1. I've trained my Drone skills alot, and also alot of those skills that support drone operation. I am comfortable that my time has not been wasted, since I feel a little special hanging out my 15 drones. After the change, I'm as ordinary as any, fly 5 drones, wehee. 2. As race/story perspective, Gallante is the "Drone Race". After the change, you can forget it. 3. Versality of using drones is best part. I can load up the ship with drones, and do several different things while out from station. If I notice that I got some left over cargo space, I just pop to roid field and fill it up before docking. After this change, my spare/different drone capacity is reduced. 4. Enemy (NPC) distraction was fun part, why make all the enemies argo your self when you can send 1 drone to harash each one? After the chance, a harashment means that you lose 1/5 of your drones per each enemy. The result is, that if these changes come to be, my fun for flying Vexor/Domi/Ishtar is reduced, propably to a point where I no longer want to fly them. Their specialty (atleast to me) is gone, I might aswel revert to using Deimos. Well anyway, was fun to fly those, but things change. Maybe you guys at CCP invent some new unique, "feel a different" ship some day to replace the loss. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.01 09:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Gabriel Karade I love some of the arguments against this change... "Oh it won't look as good with 5 drones as it does with 15" I've seen a lot of things that don't look good, and have to say that I prefer things that do look good. I am even willing to pay more on things that look good. Hell I just bought a computer case (yes, just a case, without any components, not even PSU) which costed more than a cheap laptop, but it looks good. If you look at WoW, you'll notice that it doesn't have anything other than every other RPG grinder, it just looks good. And it's popular. Why did I originally choose EVE instead of E&B? EVE looked good, EB didn't (that and CCP told that EVE will have fully working stock market, still waiting). People tend to like things that look good. With the drone change I might get "more bang for a buck", but it doesn't look good. More precicely, it doesn't feel good. And if I'm not feeling good, then there's no point in using it. I might even go down to using Celestis, since it looks good, even witout the drones. And yes, I've learned missile skills just for that, for using Celestis.. I like games where there are varieties, this drone change is closing the gaps between races. I see the process of "flatheading" things in this change. Let's just tweak the stats, one by one, until all the ships are the same. Same stats for everyone, and one I WIN button for those who wish to win. Well, I'll propably be the minority on this. I like to feel that playing should be something other than calculating how things work at best, which module to put to where and what drone to use in which situation. I like to play for the enjoyment it gives, not for just playing. And things that give me enjoyment tend to look good. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.01 09:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Gabriel Karade I love some of the arguments against this change... "Oh it won't look as good with 5 drones as it does with 15" I've seen a lot of things that don't look good, and have to say that I prefer things that do look good. I am even willing to pay more on things that look good. Hell I just bought a computer case (yes, just a case, without any components, not even PSU) which costed more than a cheap laptop, but it looks good. If you look at WoW, you'll notice that it doesn't have anything other than every other RPG grinder, it just looks good. And it's popular. Why did I originally choose EVE instead of E&B? EVE looked good, EB didn't (that and CCP told that EVE will have fully working stock market, still waiting). People tend to like things that look good. With the drone change I might get "more bang for a buck", but it doesn't look good. More precicely, it doesn't feel good. And if I'm not feeling good, then there's no point in using it. I might even go down to using Celestis, since it looks good, even witout the drones. And yes, I've learned missile skills just for that, for using Celestis.. I like games where there are varieties, this drone change is closing the gaps between races. I see the process of "flatheading" things in this change. Let's just tweak the stats, one by one, until all the ships are the same. Same stats for everyone, and one I WIN button for those who wish to win. Well, I'll propably be the minority on this. I like to feel that playing should be something other than calculating how things work at best, which module to put to where and what drone to use in which situation. I like to play for the enjoyment it gives, not for just playing. And things that give me enjoyment tend to look good. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.01 15:48:00 - [5] How about giving Vexor, Domi and Ishtar an additional +0.4 drones bonus per level of Gallante Cruiser/Battleship bonus? Plus additional bonus for Drone Interfacing of +0.4 per level. This would give a max +4 to Drones in use at both skills on level 5. Compared to all, this would drop total number of active drones to 55-60%, thus helping the lag issue about 40-45% but still retaining the versability of the drones and keeping the Drone carrier operational. Consider a 5 Damage + 4 EW of a carrier to Geddon + 4 EW. Might be a match. Plus the carriers would still be special.. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.01 15:48:00 - [6] How about giving Vexor, Domi and Ishtar an additional +0.4 drones bonus per level of Gallante Cruiser/Battleship bonus? Plus additional bonus for Drone Interfacing of +0.4 per level. This would give a max +4 to Drones in use at both skills on level 5. Compared to all, this would drop total number of active drones to 55-60%, thus helping the lag issue about 40-45% but still retaining the versability of the drones and keeping the Drone carrier operational. Consider a 5 Damage + 4 EW of a carrier to Geddon + 4 EW. Might be a match. Plus the carriers would still be special.. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.01 15:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Ampoliros Woo, someone actually read my idea. Hurrah. I'll quote it here given that the yelling about thermal damage has died down (Thanks Tuxford, I swear next time before you introduce any changes I'll buy you a flameproof suit): Originally by: Ampoliros Well, I had a long post typed out..but anyway ! There are a few things in these changes that I don't like. Primarily, there is the 'Drone Swarm' thing. I (and it seems, many others) enjoy the sight of 11-15 drones zooming out to blast my enemies; its a neat look. The idea I had, was to keep the drone changes - 5 drones max in space. However, make drones a small squadron of drones in formation, rather than a single drone out in space. Launch ogres, i get a 5 pack of ogres in space which, except for graphically, function as one drone. All the numbers are the same, whatever. It just looks like i have say 25 drones in space when I only actually have 5 (server lag wise). It keeps the cool flavor of the drone swarm, with less lag - I'm not sure if it would make things worse client side, but server side I'm guessing it makes things a lot better. Was just an idea I had. Any thoughts? Interestingly enough, I went back to do level 4s later on that night, and a couple of my ogres were stuck together (I'm not sure why). I took a screenie which you can find here. You just see the two drones, looking like they're flying in quasi-formation; thats all I'm asking for here. Just stick 3-5 drones together and turn them into one 'controllable' unit (imagine an extra drone there, but say only one 'X' on the leading drone). You could even eventually introduce different formations giving bonuses to survivability for damage, or tracking for damage, etc.. Not right now, though. :) You might want to reduce the number of drones for the smaller drone sizes so it doesn't look too weird (so you don't get an ishkur spewing forth 25 drones, which would look a bit odd). It'd be some welcome eye candy, anyway, and greatly appreciated. Also, is there any word to what module slot the 'drone' modules are? Ah, and what size are the Sentry drones going to be? Seems a good idea. How about you guys pop it to Ideas forum so we can all refine it from there and start making additional ideas from there? --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.01 15:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Ampoliros Woo, someone actually read my idea. Hurrah. I'll quote it here given that the yelling about thermal damage has died down (Thanks Tuxford, I swear next time before you introduce any changes I'll buy you a flameproof suit): Originally by: Ampoliros Well, I had a long post typed out..but anyway ! There are a few things in these changes that I don't like. Primarily, there is the 'Drone Swarm' thing. I (and it seems, many others) enjoy the sight of 11-15 drones zooming out to blast my enemies; its a neat look. The idea I had, was to keep the drone changes - 5 drones max in space. However, make drones a small squadron of drones in formation, rather than a single drone out in space. Launch ogres, i get a 5 pack of ogres in space which, except for graphically, function as one drone. All the numbers are the same, whatever. It just looks like i have say 25 drones in space when I only actually have 5 (server lag wise). It keeps the cool flavor of the drone swarm, with less lag - I'm not sure if it would make things worse client side, but server side I'm guessing it makes things a lot better. Was just an idea I had. Any thoughts? Interestingly enough, I went back to do level 4s later on that night, and a couple of my ogres were stuck together (I'm not sure why). I took a screenie which you can find here. You just see the two drones, looking like they're flying in quasi-formation; thats all I'm asking for here. Just stick 3-5 drones together and turn them into one 'controllable' unit (imagine an extra drone there, but say only one 'X' on the leading drone). You could even eventually introduce different formations giving bonuses to survivability for damage, or tracking for damage, etc.. Not right now, though. :) You might want to reduce the number of drones for the smaller drone sizes so it doesn't look too weird (so you don't get an ishkur spewing forth 25 drones, which would look a bit odd). It'd be some welcome eye candy, anyway, and greatly appreciated. Also, is there any word to what module slot the 'drone' modules are? Ah, and what size are the Sentry drones going to be? Seems a good idea. How about you guys pop it to Ideas forum so we can all refine it from there and start making additional ideas from there? --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:29:00 - [9] After thinking about how this change affects drone carriers, I believe that one solution would be retaining the +1 drones of drone carriers, and only changing the drone interfacing to +20% damage/mining bonus. This would essentially save the specific advantages of drone carriers, but would also drop the drone count by 40-50%, thus dropping the drone lag to half. And that is my suggestion. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:29:00 - [10] After thinking about how this change affects drone carriers, I believe that one solution would be retaining the +1 drones of drone carriers, and only changing the drone interfacing to +20% damage/mining bonus. This would essentially save the specific advantages of drone carriers, but would also drop the drone count by 40-50%, thus dropping the drone lag to half. And that is my suggestion. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2005 11:46:16 ôHowever on this occasion they are alittle askew. 50% of Shields + 50% of Armour + 50% of Structure = 50% of drone hp not 150% There is a significant drop is surviability.ö What mean is a lot of people think its just 50% to shield or 50% to amour. But its not itÆs 50% to each. I didnÆt write it the best way but 50% to each is a lot better then 50% to one. On top of that there is a new skill so its really 75% to each not 50% which everyone is using, assuming its a 5% per level skill. There is quite a big difference between just 50% to shield or 75% to shield, amour and Structure. I believe a lot of people will be happier with the change once they realize its 75% to all 3, on top of the speed increase which makes the drones harder to hit. x2=x11.5 y2=y11.5 z2=z11.5 Difference is then x2+y2+z2 D= -------- x1+y1+z1 so 1.5x1 + 1.5y1 + 1.5z1 D= ------------------------ x1 + y1 + z1 so 1.5(x1+y1+z1) D= -------------- 1(x1+y1+z1) so D = 1.5 / 1 = 1.5 And therefore difference in persentage is 150%, which means that single drone get boosted by 50%. But when combined with Drone Carriers this comes to into a different matter... Hp1 = 15 * x1 Hp2 = 5 * x2 x2 = 1.5* x1 Which means that Dhp = Hp2 / Hp1 = (51.5x1)/(15x1) = (7.5x1)/(15*x1) = 7.5/15 = 0.5 Which means, that in case of Drone Carriers.. The hitpoints got "upgraded" to half of the original. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2005 11:46:16 ôHowever on this occasion they are alittle askew. 50% of Shields + 50% of Armour + 50% of Structure = 50% of drone hp not 150% There is a significant drop is surviability.ö What mean is a lot of people think its just 50% to shield or 50% to amour. But its not itÆs 50% to each. I didnÆt write it the best way but 50% to each is a lot better then 50% to one. On top of that there is a new skill so its really 75% to each not 50% which everyone is using, assuming its a 5% per level skill. There is quite a big difference between just 50% to shield or 75% to shield, amour and Structure. I believe a lot of people will be happier with the change once they realize its 75% to all 3, on top of the speed increase which makes the drones harder to hit. x2=x11.5 y2=y11.5 z2=z11.5 Difference is then x2+y2+z2 D= -------- x1+y1+z1 so 1.5x1 + 1.5y1 + 1.5z1 D= ------------------------ x1 + y1 + z1 so 1.5(x1+y1+z1) D= -------------- 1(x1+y1+z1) so D = 1.5 / 1 = 1.5 And therefore difference in persentage is 150%, which means that single drone get boosted by 50%. But when combined with Drone Carriers this comes to into a different matter... Hp1 = 15 * x1 Hp2 = 5 * x2 x2 = 1.5* x1 Which means that Dhp = Hp2 / Hp1 = (51.5x1)/(15x1) = (7.5x1)/(15*x1) = 7.5/15 = 0.5 Which means, that in case of Drone Carriers.. The hitpoints got "upgraded" to half of the original. --- Sell orders Recruitment
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:50:00 - [13] Quote: Quote: "Which means, that in case of Drone Carriers.. The hitpoints got "upgraded" to half of the original." That's per wave; overall, this would be 15 * 1.5 = 22.5 worth of drones hp vs 30, i.e. 75% of original amount. Per drone we get upgrade, per wave we get downgrade, per drone bay we get upgrade. Now what is doing the fight? Those drones that are in the drone bay, or those that are in the wave attacking the enemy? Drones in the wave are the ones that count. Quote: however... reading blog ftw: (Dominix) "The durability would still be, assuming 50% increase in drone hitpoints, 7.5 effective drones but it wouldn't be that unrealistic that these ships would also get drone hitpoint bonuses lets say 10% per level which means that with Gallente Battleship at level 5 the drones would have 2.25 times the hitpoint of the drones before the changes, that is combined hitpoints of 5 drones with Gallente Battleship level 5 would be the same as 11.25 drones before the changes." so: 5 new drones = 11.25 old drones 15 new drones = 33.75 old drones resulting in overall 12.5% increase of drone hp for the drone carrier. Before the durability skill is even included, btw. Yup, that is if the drone carriers get the +10% bonus. You clearly see, that the drones in a fight will be at 75% of their former strenght (11.25/15 = 0.75). In other words: - If no bonus for drone carriers, then enemy can kill the drone waves in half of the time it used to take. - If a +10% bonus for drone carriers, then enemy can kill the drone waves in 3/4 of the time it used to take. P.S. And calculating to new system the new skills, which could have been on top of the old system, is missleading. --- SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR
Steven Dynahir Gallente Avaruuslaivanrakentajat Oyj	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:50:00 - [14] Quote: Quote: "Which means, that in case of Drone Carriers.. The hitpoints got "upgraded" to half of the original." That's per wave; overall, this would be 15 * 1.5 = 22.5 worth of drones hp vs 30, i.e. 75% of original amount. Per drone we get upgrade, per wave we get downgrade, per drone bay we get upgrade. Now what is doing the fight? Those drones that are in the drone bay, or those that are in the wave attacking the enemy? Drones in the wave are the ones that count. Quote: however... reading blog ftw: (Dominix) "The durability would still be, assuming 50% increase in drone hitpoints, 7.5 effective drones but it wouldn't be that unrealistic that these ships would also get drone hitpoint bonuses lets say 10% per level which means that with Gallente Battleship at level 5 the drones would have 2.25 times the hitpoint of the drones before the changes, that is combined hitpoints of 5 drones with Gallente Battleship level 5 would be the same as 11.25 drones before the changes." so: 5 new drones = 11.25 old drones 15 new drones = 33.75 old drones resulting in overall 12.5% increase of drone hp for the drone carrier. Before the durability skill is even included, btw. Yup, that is if the drone carriers get the +10% bonus. You clearly see, that the drones in a fight will be at 75% of their former strenght (11.25/15 = 0.75). In other words: - If no bonus for drone carriers, then enemy can kill the drone waves in half of the time it used to take. - If a +10% bonus for drone carriers, then enemy can kill the drone waves in 3/4 of the time it used to take. P.S. And calculating to new system the new skills, which could have been on top of the old system, is missleading. --- Sell orders Recruitment

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